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7/8/2008 2:41:09 PM
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J-Sun
Posts 124
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EThomas wrote:
I've read a lot about Moore, but so far haven't read any of Moore's work myself.
gdozois wrote:
Her "Vintage Season" holds up as one of the best SF novellas ever written.
Yeah, I was just going to say, she's fantastic and you gotta gotta check her out. I've got The Best of C.L. Moore, a Jirel of Joiry and a Northwest Smith collection, her Judgment Night novel/collection, which are all priceless. Then there's a lot of Kuttner's work (who is also great) including the Startling Worlds kind of stuff which was a collaboration to a degree (like much of their stuff) but some, like Earth's Last Citadel are sometimes openly credited as collaborations. She can be a very rich, sensual writer, but can pare down her style a great deal (such as in Doomsday Morning or the great "Vintage Season" as mentioned) and can write across a range of types, from wild fantastic stuff to pretty sober science fiction.
Whenever Kuttner/Moore come up, it seems, I have to say something and start raving a bit. 
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7/8/2008 2:44:58 PM
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Berry
Posts 92
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Ernest Hemingway: Complete Poems edited by Nicholas Gerogiannis. One of the rare cases I've read such a work where the annotated notes to each poem were as good or more interesting than the actual piece itself.
Interesting to read 89 poems by someone so charged as a master of the American short story and a deft hand at the novel. His poems written as reactions/ripostes to critics were some of the more entertaining ones.
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7/9/2008 9:08:15 PM
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EThomas
Posts 908
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A few days ago I finished the far future science fiction (with some fantasy structure) novel The Snow Queen by Joan D. Vinge. We spoke on another thread about how much hype this particular Hugo award winner has had, both for and against it. I know I said on the other thread that it started out fairly slow, but I really got into it as I continued to read.
I wasn't too interested in the two main characters, Sparks and Moon, who were loosely based on the two main protagonists of Hans Christian Andersen's The Snow Queen. It really takes an extreme leap of faith to believe that their romance would be at all viable for the long run. They did get more interesting as the story went on, but there actually was a lot of the story that was from the POV of secondary characters. I found I was a lot more invested in the secondary characters: the "Blues" (future police officers), the smugglers, Tor and her robot Pollux, et cetera. At times it almost felt like I was reading multiple books, but all of the storylines eventually connected at one point or another. The book is also full of great world building and "what if?" ideas, and I felt the story started moving a lot faster later in the novel. It was a novel where the end definitely felt like an end, but I am still pleased to find out that there are other stories set in the same world. I'm definitely interested in reading them in the future. I'm also hoping that I will get to see the Blue that was the thinly disguised SF/fantasy geek again. (g)
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~THE REPORTS OF MY DEATH
ARE GREATLY EXAGGERATED!
LOVE, SCIENCE FICTION~
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7/10/2008 7:04:22 AM
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Viaduct
Posts 92
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I'm about 3/4 of the way into Chris Moriarty's "Spin State".
Most post-human stories have left me cold, but this one is pretty good. It posits a more believable future, with
a wide range of upgrades available to people from genetic to cybernetic to mechanical. Post-humans and
unmodified humans have to deal with each other, and only the very rich and the very poor have no upgrades at
all. While the upgrades are useful they have their problems, too. Overall a very messy, gritty and believable
view of a possible future.
The story is basically a murder-mystery. The protag is a soldier who joined the military to get away from the mining
colony she was raised on. She's tasked with returning to the mining colony to investigate the murder of a scientist
who was working on sythesizing (sp?) the material that the mine produced - a material critical to FTL technology.
She has to pick her way through conflicting agendas and deal with people that know more about her past than she
does.
My only gripe with the book so far is a tendency to get bogged down with agendas and details. The editors should
have got the author to tighten up the story. It's still a good read, though.
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7/10/2008 7:58:39 AM
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bluetyson
Posts 1074
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rewaters wrote:
I am currently reading two books: SIDEWAYS IN CRIME and BLACK GOD'S KISS, which is a collection of CL Moore stories about Jirel of Joiry, who predates Red Sonja. Jirel was one of the first (if not the first) female warrior characters of the 30s pulps. I'm not sure I'd say they are better than Howard's Conan stories, but they are interesting. edited by rewaters on 7/8/2008
No, they aren't that good, but they are certainly still good.
Here's a good article on Jirel/Moore at Black Gate
Jirel of Joiry The Mother of Us All
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7/10/2008 8:16:56 AM
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bluetyson
Posts 1074
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EThomas wrote:
rewaters wrote: I am currently reading two books: SIDEWAYS IN CRIME and BLACK GOD'S KISS, which is a collection of CL Moore stories about Jirel of Joiry, who predates Red Sonja. Jirel was one of the first (if not the first) female warrior characters of the 30s pulps. I'm not sure I'd say they are better than Howard's Conan stories, but they are interesting. edited by rewaters on 7/8/2008 Thanks for posting. I've read a lot about Moore, but so far haven't read any of Moore's work myself.
You certainly should. She is a top-level writer. The Jirel and Northwest Smith stories, for sure - there's a best of C. L. Moore too.
There's an older Jirel of Joiry paperback that has the Jirel only stories that my sister had. Black Gods Kiss has the crossover story in it too, I think, that is in the second Karl Edward Wagner Echoes of Valor Sword and Sorcery Anthology.
Also a Fantasy Masterworks volume 'Black Gods and Scarlet Dreams', as other possibilities to look for apart from the new Paizo Planet Stories books. There are various collections titled Shambleau/something and Northwest/something too, if looking for
SF-C-4.5 Moore, C. L. : The Best Of C. L. Moore
SO-S-4.0 Moore, C. L. : Black God's Kiss
SO-S-3.5 Moore, C. L. : Black God's Shadow
SF-C-4.0 Moore, C. L. : Black Gods and Scarlet Dreams
SF-S-4.0 Moore, C. L. : Black Thirst
SF-S-3.5 Moore, C. L. : The Bright Illusion
SF-S-4.0 Moore, C. L. : The Cold Gray God
SH-S-4.0 Moore, C. L. : Daemon
SO-S-4.0 Moore, C. L. : The Dark Land
SF-S-3.5 Moore, C. L. : Doorway Into Time
SF-S-4.0 Moore, C. L. : Dust Of Gods
SU-S-3.5 Moore, C. L. : Fruit Of Knowledge
SF-S-3.0 Moore, C. L. : Greater Than Gods
SO-S-3.0 Moore, C. L. : Hellsgarde
SO-S-4.0 Moore, C. L. : Jirel Meets Magic
SO-C-4.0 Moore, C. L. : Jirel of Joiry
SF-S-4.0 Moore, C. L. : Julhi
SF-S-3.0 Moore, C. L. : Lost Paradise
SF-S-4.0 Moore, C. L. : No Woman Born
SF-S-3.0 Moore, C. L. : Scarlet Dream
SF-C-5.0 Moore, C. L. : Shambleau
SF-S-4.5 Moore, C. L. : Shambleau
SF-S-3.0 Moore, C. L. : Song In A Minor Key
SF-S-3.5 Moore, C. L. : The Tree Of Life
SF-S-3.0 Moore, C. L. : Tryst In Time
SF-S-3.0 Kuttner, Henry and C. L. Moore : Ex Machina
SF-S-3.5 Kuttner, Henry and C. L. Moore : Home Is the Hunter
SF-S-4.5 Kuttner, Henry and C. L. Moore : Mimsy Were the Borogoves
SF-S-4.0 Kuttner, Henry and C. L. Moore : Vintage Season
edited by bluetyson on 7/10/2008
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Free SF - Not Free SF Megablog | Free SF Reader | Not Free SF Reader | Super Reader - Superhero Prose Fiction | Space Opera Reader
Leigh Brackett (ology) | Laird Barron (ology) | Paolo Bacigalupi (ology) | Greg Egan (ology) | Alastair Reynolds (ology) | Cordwainer Smith (ology) | Charles Stross (ology) | Ted Chiang (ology)
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7/10/2008 12:35:51 PM
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bluetyson
Posts 1074
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A book that I thought was rather good was Justin Gustainis' Black Magic Woman - which is apparently his second novel I discovered after finding it, but a start of a series. Great cover, too.
A descendant of Quincey Morris is a good old fashioned occult detective type.
--
Free SF - Not Free SF Megablog | Free SF Reader | Not Free SF Reader | Super Reader - Superhero Prose Fiction | Space Opera Reader
Leigh Brackett (ology) | Laird Barron (ology) | Paolo Bacigalupi (ology) | Greg Egan (ology) | Alastair Reynolds (ology) | Cordwainer Smith (ology) | Charles Stross (ology) | Ted Chiang (ology)
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7/13/2008 12:16:58 PM
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Douglas Cohen
Posts 21
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Popping in because I noticed some discussion concerning C.L. Moore's Jirel of Joiry. An excellent creation, although "Black God's Kiss" was the only story that truly resonated with me (I've yet to read the crossover tale Northwest Smith). Also, Rewaters notes that Jirel predates Red Sonja. That's true, but Jirel doesn't predate Red Sonya, the character on which Red Sonja is based. Red Sonja first appeared Conan the Barbarian # 23 from Marvel Comics, in 1973 (I think). Roy Thomas, then the writer for CTB, based her on the Red Sonya from Robert E. Howard's "The Shadow of the Vulture," which first appeared in The Magic Carpet in January 1934. Moore's Jirel of Joiry didn't make her first appearance until October 1934, in the original incarnation of Weird Tales.
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7/13/2008 12:24:41 PM
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gdozois
Posts 4314
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Magazine lead-times make it unlikely that one influenced the other, unless they were passing manuscripts back and forth (not an impossibility, but unlikely).
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7/13/2008 12:55:44 PM
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Douglas Cohen
Posts 21
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I would agree. I only mentioned it because the pulp era fascinates me. Conan was my introduction to the genre, and I've grown to appreciate a number of his contemporaries, and some who followed soon after, such as Leiber. I like to talk about the pulps whenever I get the chance. The ignorant sometimes look down on the whole pulp era, as if it's impossible anyone writing something for the pulps could have produced something worthwhile to our genre. Silliness.
edited by Douglas Cohen on 7/13/2008
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7/16/2008 6:33:35 PM
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bmeaker
Posts 15
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Last night I finished reading Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke. I enjoyed it, I think the only other Clarke I had read was a story or two.
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7/19/2008 4:22:59 PM
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EThomas
Posts 908
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About a week ago I finished a series of three fantasy novels by Moira J. Moore: Resenting the Hero, The Hero Strikes Back, and Heroes Adrift. These three books are about two partners from very different backgrounds, Lee and Taro, who are part of a magical bond of Shield and Source. Each book is a standalone in which they fight some baddie (or odd magical phenomenon) and win in the end. The structure actually reminds me more of mystery partner novels than the usual fantasy series--I would say that while there appears that there might be an overarching story woven through the books, in general these novels have more of a sword and sorcery feel than an epic fantasy feel. (There are some historical remarks that indicate that the world they are on was originally populated by starships and the special abilities arose only after extreme weather catastrophes kept destroying cities and tech, but this doesn't really have bearing on the current story).
The basic magic premise is as follows:
Certain people called Sources develop the power to channel the weather on this world of violent natural disasters, and they can prevent hurricanes, floods, and other natural disasters. However, in the process of this channeling, they open themselves to the forces that they are protecting people from and will get killed if not protected. Shields aren't able to channel the forces, but they do have the ability to place up shields around Sources that allow the Sources to still have room to channel without being overwhelmed by the forces. While a Shield can technically shield anybody, there is only one Source that they will bond to and be able to feel when the Source lets down their guards and begins channeling. All this information was discovered years ago, and now society has built in a set of customs around all of this information (Moore does some interesting stuff with this worldbuilding). Since the bond can be dangerous to a young person who isn't able to handle it yet, the Shields and Sources are kept in entirely separate boarding schools to prevent from the danger of an accidental early pairing. Then they are ritually brought before each other to pair off.
Resenting the Hero
Lee, a classic pragmatic Shield, has convinced herself she really wants to just live a low-key life and do her job--so the last person she wants to be paired with is the notoriously dashing, upper class Taro, who everyone expects to be a hero and simultaneously wants to bed. Unfortunately, you don't get to choose who you are magically paired with, so she is stuck with him for life and resenting it. It certainly rankles that not only are they paired, but they have some of the symptoms that the common people base those ridiculous romantic Source and Shield ballads on (i.e. touching each other eases pain). Right away it becomes apparent that Taro isn't really what she expects him to be, but before they can get settled, a natural disaster that doesn't feel so natural kills or knocks out all of the other Sources and Shields assigned to their city. Lee and Taro must work through their differences if they want to protect the people, solve the mysterious magical disaster,and keep themselves alive. Moore sets up an entire world within the red herrings for the mystery plot within which to play, and all the hints about other characters and political entities (not to mention Taro having some powers that Sources aren't supposed to have) left me wanting more.
[to be continued]
edit to add
edited by EThomas on 7/19/2008
--
~THE REPORTS OF MY DEATH
ARE GREATLY EXAGGERATED!
LOVE, SCIENCE FICTION~
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7/19/2008 4:25:36 PM
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EThomas
Posts 908
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The Hero Strikes Back
Lee and Taro are back and are now a united team, but just when they thought they could rest, their mothers arrive. Lee's well meaning mother is determined to match her up and get her to settle down with the right man, while Taro's mother continues to be a real nightmare. Meanwhile, someone or something is making aristocrats disappear and probably killing them--which might place Taro in danger. If that wasn't enough, the strange unnatural weather surrounding the city--like snow in summer--is causing the city to turn against all their Source and Shield pairs. Although a few things were left unexplained, overall this was as fun to read as the first book.
Heroes Adrift
The Empress has a special task for Taro (oh, yeah, and Lee, too, since she comes as part of the package). She sends them to the Southern Islands to search down a lost heir to the throne. In a role reversal, the islanders give Lee most of the attention for her "exotic" red hair, while Taro is left lost when his ability to charm doesn't seem to work with anyone. Also, the Pair is forced to work and use money to get their food and lodging (something Pairs don't have to do up north, where one of the perks of the profession is free services and goods wherever they go). This novel wasn't as good as the first two, and I felt it was mainly to introduce a new character that might be important in a later book. Lee, one of my favorite characters, seemed to be a bit off for some reason that I can't pinpoint. Out of their element and usual setting, Lee allows herself to succumb to her feelings for Taro--although she has convinced herself that it is only a temporary fling and that when he gets tired of her, they will go back to being friends and nothing will be weird. I think this one isn't as good as the first two--it's almost like Moore didn't know which scenes should be cut out and which should be in the book. I wasn't too excited about the portrayal of the new character, but I think she does have potential for the future books (and she totally knows something that Lee and Taro think she doesn't). I'm still liking the series, though, and looking forward to the next installment.
CONCLUSION: If you like fantasy and are looking for a fun series to read that isn’t an epic fantasy series, this might be a fun series to check out, especially since it is kind of like a partner mystery series in setup.
edit to fix typo
edited by EThomas on 7/21/2008
--
~THE REPORTS OF MY DEATH
ARE GREATLY EXAGGERATED!
LOVE, SCIENCE FICTION~
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7/21/2008 7:17:38 PM
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Annie
Posts 460
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Just finished James C. Glass's The Viper of Portello
Military sci-fi, well written (although whoever edited had put a few commas in places that made me reread the sentences just to get the meaning...), I actually cared for most of the characters...
The names of some of the planets were a bit... unimaginative - why not call the planet with the narco-cartels and the jungles Colomba for example(even though this may had been a searched effect because some of the others had not so-obvious names but still I think it had been a bad idea)? And the main personal story (which shaped all the events in the book) was as if it was taken from the latest Brazilian soap-opera but for the most part it was believable (except that some people that were really clever and seeing ahead and so on was not seeing the obvious - in some cases it was close to unbelievable that they had no idea what is going on). The last pages made me laugh and the Epilogue was waaaay too sweet for this kind of a book (I seem to dislike most of the epilogues later anyway).
I have no idea if the military things were done correctly but they were believable. A few of the secrets in the plot were no secrets for the reader long before anyone in the book even thought about them (and not because the author said it - the hints were nicely put there... ). And a few twists were so unexpectedly happening that they were making perfect sense and yet they had never been even hinted before.
In short: it had its weak places but I liked the book a lot...
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7/21/2008 8:33:49 PM
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Sam Wilson
Posts 1123
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My fellow Forumites were very helpful in giving me their opinions of the sequels to Clarke's 2001: A Space Odyssey, ie: 2010, 2030, 2,001,001001: I Need a New Mercedes, etc. Also the sequels to Rendezvous with Rama : Harold and Kumar Go to Rama, etc.
I've just finished Isaac Asimov's Robots and Empire and I was wondering if any of the "authorized" sequels to the Foundation books were worth reading: Foundation's Fear, Foundation and Chaos, Foundation's Triumph
Thanks
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If the rule that you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?
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7/21/2008 8:55:08 PM
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gdozois
Posts 4314
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I haven't read any of them, but Greg Bear is usually worth reading,
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7/21/2008 9:05:47 PM
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Sam Wilson
Posts 1123
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Thanks. You're right; Hardfought is one of my favorite sf stories of all time.
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If the rule that you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?
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7/22/2008 5:40:52 AM
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Annie
Posts 460
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The BBB sequels for the Foundation are pretty good in my opinion. I would read them in the proper order though (Benford, Bear, Brin) but after the 7 foundation books by Asimov (and all the empire and robot ones but this is another story - I do not necessarily agree with the usual order everyone is giving) . They are not connected directly with each other but hints and so on are there and if you start with a later one, the earlier one looses some of its charm but the book itself does not loose a thing. From what I remember Bear's was the best written but Brin's is the one that actually gets all the things together and closes the framework... (and Benford's is a great opening). And they are not exactly sequels - Benford's Foundation's Fear is set during the prequels (even before the original trilogy), Bear's Foundation and Chaos is set during the original thilogy.
PS: Foundation is my series from longer than I can remember so I may be a bit too forgiving on some things but I still think these are worth reading
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7/22/2008 6:19:12 PM
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EThomas
Posts 908
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Sam Wilson wrote:
My fellow Forumites were very helpful in giving me their opinions of the sequels to Clarke's 2001: A Space Odyssey, ie: 2010, 2030, 2,001,001001: I Need a New Mercedes, etc. Also the sequels to Rendezvous with Rama : Harold and Kumar Go to Rama, etc.
I've just finished Isaac Asimov's Robots and Empire and I was wondering if any of the "authorized" sequels to the Foundation books were worth reading: Foundation's Fear, Foundation and Chaos, Foundation's Triumph
I haven't read these, but I do want to say that there seems to be a divided opinion on this subject. I have seen a lot of people on the forum in the past recommend against reading these non-Asimov Foundation novels at all--while other seem to think they are okay.
--
~THE REPORTS OF MY DEATH
ARE GREATLY EXAGGERATED!
LOVE, SCIENCE FICTION~
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7/22/2008 7:52:41 PM
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Sam Wilson
Posts 1123
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Thanks, Annie and E (may I call you E?). I'll start with the first and see if it keeps my interest.
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If the rule that you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?
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