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7/9/2008 10:20:13 PM
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themasterknitter
Posts 425
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Looks like most Gen X and Y Editors here Stateside disagree with Gardner and Shelia.
http://www.chrononaut.org/log/?p=396#comments
And I've learned that William is Tempest's bitch. Wow.
Go ahead and post those rejects, Kids. The folks at Strange Horizons and Clarksworld don't seem to give a fuck.
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7/9/2008 11:00:48 PM
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Dave_Truesdale
Posts 645
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Wow is right, for a variety of reasons, Murph. Tempest is angry at everyone and everything that doesn't fit her narrow worldview. And everyone who disagrees with her on even the tiniest little thing she either labels (nay, screams is) a racist, a sexist, or a homophobe; and yet she labels this forum as full of racists, sexists, and homophobes, and doesn't see how William can stand it over here. Talk about the utter arrogance and self-righteousness of her non-stop rants! She'd find sexism or racism in a blade of grass, for crying out loud. Rush was right after all, about her sort. I didn't use to think so, but I've seen her type prove Rush right time after time after time. Whew.
Someone needs an emergency bitch-suction operation.
edited by Dave_truesdale on 7/9/2008
--
"When any category of science fiction has become dull and repetitive, there is always a brilliant story waiting to be written by giving up the assumptions that made the story easy to write." -- Damon Knight
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7/9/2008 11:45:07 PM
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WPreston
Posts 1275
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May all beings everywhere plagued
with sufferings of body and mind
quickly be freed from their illnesses.
May those frightened cease to be afraid,
and may those bound be free.
May the powerless find power,
and may people think of befriending
one another.
May those who find themselves in trackless,
fearful wilderness--
the children, the aged, the unprotected--
be guarded by beneficent celestials,
and may they swiftly attain Buddhahood.
--Buddhist prayer
--
http://wmpreston.blogspot.com
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7/10/2008 12:28:33 AM
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Posts 168
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Toby Buckell had some interesting things to say about this.
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7/10/2008 12:43:18 AM
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WPreston
Posts 1275
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And Elizabeth Bear, here.
--
http://wmpreston.blogspot.com
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7/10/2008 1:13:46 AM
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Mark Pontin
Posts 937
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“Hatred is a banquet until you recognize you are the main course.”
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7/10/2008 1:16:25 AM
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Mark Pontin
Posts 937
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And you can find that out now, Murphy, or in a decade or three when winding yourself up like this rewards you with a premature heart attack or shitty circulatory condition. Seriously.
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7/10/2008 1:26:31 AM
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themasterknitter
Posts 425
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Dave, she is a teapot, on boil, constantly. Permanently offended and perpetually pissed off, which I really wouldn't mind but apparently her behavior passes muster (threatening to hit people, seen that lots out of that one) but no one, not even Will Preston (who was horrified that I might want an accident to befall an editor I didn't care for) said so much as boo.
edited by Admin on 7/10/2008
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7/10/2008 1:29:18 AM
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themasterknitter
Posts 425
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Mark, the Murphy and the Price family have a history of long lifespans (Grandpa Price died in his 80s, had others live into their 100s and none of them were mellow people), long memories and an incredibly capacity to hold grudges.
And my heart is just fine. Thanks for asking.
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7/10/2008 1:36:46 AM
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Marian
Posts 2960
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I've never seen you hold a grudge, SFM. All I see is you in a rotten mood lashing out in every direction. A grudge involves a single issue. You have 1000 issues -- and that's on a good day. It's nice you have a heredity that offers a long life but it's no guarantee. You can undo your good health and you seem to be working furiously towards that end.
--
"Know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
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7/10/2008 1:38:22 AM
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Clint Harris
Posts 754
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jason wrote:
Clint: What a coincidence--that the same rejection I received last week! Of course, now that you've posted this rejection online everyone will know that you and I write stories which can't hold an editor's interest. :-)
Ain't that the truth, Jason. But as with running from a grizzly bear, you don't have to be the fastest, just be faster than the guy next to you. If I never find out what JJA or GVG's third letter says, I'll be just f-i-n-e if the next editor buys it. In the meantime, it's good to know I've got good company with those who get to read "alas..." every couple of weeks. 
--
Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?
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7/10/2008 1:43:55 AM
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Tom Kratman
Posts 1555
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Mark Pontin wrote:
And you can find that out now, Murphy, or in a decade or three when winding yourself up like this rewards you with a premature heart attack or shitty circulatory condition. Seriously.
It's a close question, you know, whether expressing oneself or containing oneself is more likely to lead to a heart attack. Imagine, if you will, for just a moment, Murph holding all that rage in? Think pressure cooker, overpressurized.
Now if you're saying, "let go of the rage," that's kind of a case of "easy say, hard do," no?
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7/10/2008 1:52:13 AM
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Mark Pontin
Posts 937
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I know that, Tom.
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7/10/2008 1:52:54 AM
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Mark Pontin
Posts 937
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But we only get one life, as far as I know.
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7/10/2008 1:57:46 AM
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themasterknitter
Posts 425
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Tom, I'd have a criminal record a mile and a half long if I held it in. I'd have shot someone more than a decade ago. We ever meet, I'll tell you about how it nearly came about in Korea (over just this sort of bullshit)
And you are right. I get so sick of the "let it all go," and "forgive and forget," and "It'll kill you some day."
Well, per one and two, that'd work if things didn't keep going sour (I have pro writers telling me I am well within my rights to be terminally enraged about what should have been my first story sale and I did hold it in for nearly two years when what I really wanted to do was explode all over the board about it). Forgive and forget doesn't work when, deep down inside, you want payback, revenge, their head on a pike, not some warm fuzzy glow.
As for it killing me, I doubt it. We've got pretty good tickers onboard. I suspect I'll outlive most of these folks.
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7/10/2008 2:56:17 AM
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Mark Pontin
Posts 937
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I'm not necessarily saying forgive and forget. But why do you want fools' head on pikes, Murphy? (Since you do think they're fools, don't you?) Would having their heads on pikes, even if that were possible, get you a win? In fact, do these people even matter?
In actual fact, yes, sometimes they can matter. So yes, anger can be very appropriate in measured, controlled doses. But you should always have a strategic aim. Winning is the achievement of what enhances your one and only life while you leave those who got in your way behind and below you, and simultaneously -- and this is the practical part -- aren't forced to worry about watching your back constantly.
Because, frankly, there are plenty of other angry little people out there who, if given the excuse of enmity and a chance for revenge two decades later, will take it. What, you're not an angry little person? Then don't act like it.
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7/10/2008 2:57:04 AM
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Mark Pontin
Posts 937
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Best wishes, Murphy.
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7/10/2008 3:30:15 AM
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EThomas
Posts 908
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I really dislike it when people say they are going to leave a conversation and then come back, but I'm going to be that person. After reading the links to the blog posts provided by Marguerite and Bill, I am unable to sit on my hands and will post once more even though I said I was out of this thread. It sounds like this email is not an isolated incident and that Sanders has said some prejudiced things in other venues online that mere readers like me either do not have access to or have not visited. So I am posting to say that I was ignorant of this particular subset of his behavior, although as I said before, not ignorant of his anger or tendency to go off online. I don't defend his actions, and some of the stuff I've read about him this evening from people in the field I respect is abominable, so I take back that stuff about giving him the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes I'm too naive.
Welcome to any new people to the forum who have recently registered...I hope to see you on other threads. Now I'm really bowing out, but as I said earlier, I'm happy to continue this conversation in private messages if anyone wants.
edit to fix misspelling Sanders' name
edited by EThomas on 7/10/2008
--
~THE REPORTS OF MY DEATH
ARE GREATLY EXAGGERATED!
LOVE, SCIENCE FICTION~
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7/10/2008 3:31:21 AM
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Tom Kratman
Posts 1555
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themasterknitter wrote:
Tom, I'd have a criminal record a mile and a half long if I held it in. I'd have shot someone more than a decade ago. We ever meet, I'll tell you about how it nearly came about in Korea (over just this sort of bullshit)
And you are right. I get so sick of the "let it all go," and "forgive and forget," and "It'll kill you some day."
Well, per one and two, that'd work if things didn't keep going sour (I have pro writers telling me I am well within my rights to be terminally enraged about what should have been my first story sale and I did hold it in for nearly two years when what I really wanted to do was explode all over the board about it). Forgive and forget doesn't work when, deep down inside, you want payback, revenge, their head on a pike, not some warm fuzzy glow.
As for it killing me, I doubt it. We've got pretty good tickers onboard. I suspect I'll outlive most of these folks.
I will say this much, Murph; one of the nice things about being a writer is you get to get even with people, in substantial and painful ways, that they've usually little recourse for....say, reminding a significant command in the Army that their two star's very lovely ex-wife, when he was a captain, used to fuck his lieutenants, that sort of thing. Or telling, say, the cadets of a state military academy that their commandant was promoted to brigadier general and then immediately booted from the Army, in lieu of court-martial, for pressuring a subordinate to falsify a PT test, say. Or telling the world, truthfully, that Norman Schwarzkopf's nickname wasn't "the Bear" - that was just staff PR - but rather, "Fat Normy." (True, by the way...well, all those examples were true.) You get the idea. And it's both rewarding and fun. Oh, and yes, I've a long list. Really long. It even cuts across armies. I'll get to them all, eventually.
See, that sort of thing is good revenge, practical, easy, and you can really do it without going to jail. If you can get published.
In your shoes I wouldn't vent so much. (Yes, I fight, but that's because it's recreational for me. And even there, I've cut way down.) That's energy you can better use on revenge. Save it. Nurture it. Use it for its best purpose.
Advice worth at least what you paid for it.
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7/10/2008 3:57:04 AM
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Tom Kratman
Posts 1555
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Idios Kosmos wrote:
Thank you for the kind words, Fabrice, RWilder, Marian, Jason, and Bill. There was a stretch of time there where I thought I had committed writing-career seppuku. (The jury may still be out on that one...)
Thank you for the advice, Steve, but I'm holding on to the foolish hope that this story will get published somewhere, sometime, someplace. It's still making the rounds right now.
My blog has become quite crazy and contentious in the last few days, going from 0-2 visitors per day to 150-250. Your words about keeping private things private sound very wise to me right now..
I'm a lawyer, but this issue is far, far outside my specialty. It would be deeply unwise for me to suggest causes of action that can be asserted against me. Though a quick internet reference does show that there is a copyright interest in email (esp. in the 6th District), there are other issues such as whether it was in a "fixed medium" to get copyright protection and whether my repost would constitute "fair use" for the public interest. It may constitute public disclosure of private facts, but I know a cause of action against me in California would probably be subject of an anti-SLAPP motion to strike. I'm starting to scare myself..
You know, it's not in my areas of the law either, Luke, (and I don't even practice anymore) but I'm by no means convinced there's even a potential cause of action in this. Copyright? Nah, doubt it. You stole nothing, plagiarized nothing, and attributed fully. I don't see the confidentiality agreement anywhere in there. I don't see a "do not publish" warning, and I'm not sure it would matter a bit if there were one. Analagously, imagine a hand written or typed letter you receive and tack up on a bulletin board? Where's the cause of action? You tack up a photocopy? What diff? And that is essentially what you did, copy and paste on a bulletin board. Legally speaking, I think it's just blowing smoke. (I also tend to doubt he could afford a lawyer.) And, practically and tactically speaking, when a man writes a letter as embarrassing as that one, he's probably got little interest in giving it even broader publication.
Of course, that last presupposes rationality. That may not be there in this case.
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