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11/2/2009 2:23:59 PM
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Jeffhaas
Posts 2450
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For or against?
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"A desk is a dangerous place from which to watch the world."
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11/2/2009 2:38:59 PM
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John E. Rogers, Jr.
Posts 2170
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I guess it's either Hal or the caveman who figures out how to use the bone as a club.
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11/2/2009 2:40:22 PM
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gdozois
Posts 4314
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2001 is actually a love triangle between the two astronauts and Hal 9000. Hal is in love with Keir Dullea, jealous of the other astronaut, whom he considers a rival for Keir's love--so he eliminates him. Once you think of it in those terms, it all falls into place, including the fact that the very last thing you hear before Hal "dies" is Hal singing "I'm half-crazy over the love of you" while an image of Keir floats in his eye. That's not a coincidence. Kubrick was very careful with details like that.
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11/2/2009 3:15:45 PM
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Jeffhaas
Posts 2450
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Well, I didn't think of it like that, but that would definitely mean that HAL is the protagonist, because he's the one who takes action to resolve the issue.
However, I was thinking more along the lines that HAL correctly believes that the humans are jeopardizing the mission and he's the only one who can complete it. As such, he only needs one human to deliver to the aliens for transcendance, and Keir is his choice (so, in that sense, he loves Keir, though their relationship must remain forever platonic).
edited by Jeffhaas on 11/2/2009
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"A desk is a dangerous place from which to watch the world."
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11/2/2009 5:47:50 PM
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Sam Wilson
Posts 1123
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Except, remember, HAL locks Dave outside the Jupiter, presumably to die, and Dave has to sneak back in and disable HAL.
I think there is no protagonist in 2001; the movie has an omniscient viewpoint, treating the humans and HAL equally.
Kubrick did something like this in BARRY LYNDON, where he treated the humans and landscape equally.
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If the rule that you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?
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11/2/2009 5:55:42 PM
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sheesh
Posts 461
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The hero of 2001 is obviously the big, swirly space station. It even has its own theme music.
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11/2/2009 6:16:28 PM
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Lee S
Posts 362
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The monolith, in all its iterations, of course.
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11/2/2009 6:21:05 PM
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alastair_mayer
Posts 465
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It's the black monolith. The only character that shows up in three main sequences: dawn of humanity, on the Moon, and at Jupiter. Granted, the monolith doesn't have much in the way of dialog, but it also has its own theme music, and its actions clearly influence the other characters and the outcome of the story.
edit to add: Lee, we were posting at the same time. That mine came in second is what I get for being verbose. 
edited by alastair_mayer on 11/2/2009
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- Alastair
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11/2/2009 6:38:37 PM
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RandyBeck
Posts 1867
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No use in feeling bad that you came in second to delivering a wrong answer. 
It's mankind -- as represented by Dave Bowman for completing the odyssey.
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"It is this or that -- all the universe or nothing. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?"
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11/2/2009 6:41:57 PM
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Marian
Posts 3065
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But if the monolith is the hero, what is its "hero's journey?" What is the story arc?
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"Know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
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11/2/2009 7:14:43 PM
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Jeffhaas
Posts 2450
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It's mankind -- as represented by Dave Bowman for completing the odyssey.
Of course, knowing Clarke's work, this is the likeliest explanation. But isn't HAL the next evolution of man? If HAL had succeeded in murdering Bowman, he would have been the one to transcend to the next level. (Of course, in the sequel he does, but that's extra-textual, not to mention a much inferior book/movie.)
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"A desk is a dangerous place from which to watch the world."
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11/2/2009 7:22:13 PM
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gdozois
Posts 4314
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Except, remember, HAL locks Dave outside the Jupiter, presumably to die, and Dave has to sneak back in and disable HAL.
But that's AFTER Dave had betrayed him by conspiring with the other astronaut to destroy (or at least cripple) him. Hell hath no fury like a mainframe scorned.
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11/2/2009 7:31:11 PM
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Lee S
Posts 362
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Marian wrote:
But if the monolith is the hero, what is its "hero's journey?" What is the story arc?
I wait. I observe. I wait...I wait...lonely...I wait.
I percieve a statistical possibility that my wait will soon be over...no...the asteroid...I wait..I wait...perhaps I wait to no purpose.
I wait. I observe. I wait...I wait...lonely...I wait.
You'd think my builders could have added another self within me to wait with...least that way we could have played galactopoly to fill the endless time...there's only so much time that can be filled over the aeons and epochs sampling the divergent dead-end species and noting momentary stellar phenomenon.
I wait. I observe. I wait...I wait...lonely...I wait.
Ah...A signal from my compatriot on the surface of the moon. [poor guy, they covered him in regolith...I fear he's gone a little crazy in the interim].
Soon now...soon now...I shall open the doors of the universe and perhaps, if I am found worthy, will recieve updated programming...this old {while...wend} loop I've been running the last three thousand or so millenia begins to bore me.
I wait. I observe. I wait...I wait...expectant...I wait.
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11/2/2009 7:33:43 PM
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Jeffhaas
Posts 2450
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I wait. I observe. I wait...I wait...lonely...I wait...monkies throw shit on me.
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"A desk is a dangerous place from which to watch the world."
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11/2/2009 7:52:57 PM
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gdozois
Posts 4314
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I find I kind of like it.
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11/2/2009 8:18:48 PM
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Jeffhaas
Posts 2450
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Here's a corollary question: is 2001 optimistic or pessimistic about mankind's future?
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"A desk is a dangerous place from which to watch the world."
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11/2/2009 8:20:29 PM
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gdozois
Posts 4314
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Depends if you're talking to Kubrick or Clarke.
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11/2/2009 8:27:51 PM
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Jeffhaas
Posts 2450
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Precisely what I was thinking as I typed that.
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"A desk is a dangerous place from which to watch the world."
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11/4/2009 4:43:12 PM
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Madison Bridgen
Posts 338
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gdozois wrote:
2001 is actually a love triangle between the two astronauts and Hal 9000. Hal is in love with Keir Dullea, jealous of the other astronaut, whom he considers a rival for Keir's love--so he eliminates him. Once you think of it in those terms, it all falls into place, including the fact that the very last thing you hear before Hal "dies" is Hal singing "I'm half-crazy over the love of you" while an image of Keir floats in his eye. That's not a coincidence. Kubrick was very careful with details like that.
OH GOD NO
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We are currently living in the Dinosaurs' post-apocalyptic world.
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11/4/2009 4:51:56 PM
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alastair_mayer
Posts 465
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gdozois wrote:
Depends if you're talking to Kubrick or Clarke.
Well, yeah. The Clarke story in 2001 is Childhood's End. The Kubrick story is Dr. Strangelove.
Of course there are two ways childhood can end: grow up or die.
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- Alastair
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