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11/28/2009 7:15:17 PM
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AspE
Posts 1134
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The South African runner Caster Semenya has come under criticism from many for her perceived by some " not really a female " status .
In this week's THE NEW YORKER , their is a long piece about her , which I haven't finsished reading yet , which also appears to give as full a layperson-understandable description of her " gender status " as would be reasonably possible/understandable .
This case raises interesting questions about how such a case , were it in America , would affect the " gender-culture/sexual-persona; freedom/protecting the traditional family & values " wars .
If a case of a runner such as she , from a more or less equally poor ( even if translated to American standards ) area/background , should arise in the US , how would the " pro-family/traditiional gender roles & values " contingent respond ?
Calling for her to take , publicly proven , estrogen shots , and take How To Be A Lady lessons from Carrie Prejean before she would be allowed to compete as a woman ?
How do they respond to Caster now ?
Now , too , the " GLBT " , etc. , world certainly differs , including the " T " part of that , and often disagree with each other .
In the anti-SSM battle , some right-wingers have gone to court to assist divorcees in marriages to people who transitioned to declare that marriage to have never been valid , in cases where the person now divorcing was fully aware of their spouse's having transitioned before they entered into the marriage , IIRC , and , likewise , have assisted now-split up members of same-sex relationships who wish to deny their ex-partner the right to have any contact with the children both parents raised when the relationship was a going concern .
I've seen gender conservatives state , " what you born as , that's what you are " , or " what you look like , that's what you are " , or a similar phrase , IIRC
It is oftern rumored that the actress Jamie Lee Curtis is somewhat intersex , biologically speaking .
edited by AspE on 11/28/2009
edited by AspE on 11/28/2009
edited by AspE on 11/28/2009
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11/28/2009 9:28:53 PM
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pc
Posts 2165
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Have not seen that issue of The New Yorker.
Here in AspE and my SF Bay area, there was talk of adding a third bathroom type in public venues, since Men and Women just don't cut it any more. The express reason was to help avoid embarrassment to individuals who don't fit either category. (Not sure if this has actually been carried out, anywhere, as yet.)
As for Ms. Semenya, I suppose due to privacy concerns, everybody sure is beating around the bush.
What exactly is the issue here?
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It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes -- Douglas Adams
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11/29/2009 4:15:35 AM
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Thomas R
Posts 3510
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I think the concern is that a male athlete will pretend to be a female and have an unfair advantage. I don't think it's sexist to say, these days, that a male athlete really is going to have an advantage in several sports.
When it comes to intersexed people many sports bodies, I believe, have stopped any testing for that. I'm not sure if an intersex has an advantage over a woman and it's a medical condition not a form of fraud. Still I think there are some who argue it is still equivalent to "testosterone doping" which is forbidden in several female sports. That using an intersexed person in women's sports is unfair.
The other controversy is racial. Some feel that they're saying "she looks mannish" because she's African and that it's part of the idea black women are less feminine unless they're light-skinned. However that notion seems to be in dispute among black commentators I've seen. A few give it credence, but several say this has nothing to do with why people suspected her and point to the fact there are several female athletes just as "black" as her who have not received any gender scrutiny.
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"Men fear death as children fear to go in the dark; and as that natural fear in children is increased by tales, so is the other." Francis Bacon
"Gummy Bears, gummy bears don't spread darkness and death!... Do they?" Tom Servo MST3K
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11/29/2009 6:28:29 AM
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dolphintornsea
Posts 499
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The issue here in South Africa has mainly been the way the controversy was handled by the athletics authorities, and the way the athlete's privacy and sensitivity was violated.
Caster Semenya is unquestionably a young woman, but unfortunately that does not end the issue once and for all. Apparently, it is possible to be a woman in all aspects of outward physical appearance, while nevertheless having certain secondary internal characteristics or vestigial organs usually found in males and leading to unusually elevated testosterone levels. The question then becomes whether such individuals have an unfair advantage over others. I don't know the answer.
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11/29/2009 11:48:29 AM
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pc
Posts 2165
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Thanks, dolphin. That's clear enough, all right.
This is certainly raising a whole bunch of serious issues at once.
As for 'looking mannish,' better to hold my tongue, and invite forumites to use their own eyes.
(Hey, preferences for appearance are all over the place. The other night on TV we saw the James Bond film A View to a Kill, which features Grace Jones.
Thomas, in this age of Photoshop, you may recall the controversy over some major news magazine covers, and whether people such as OJ got "darkened." Conversely, one could easily modify photos of Semanya (hair, skin, etc.) and show them around, and find out what a variety of observers would say.
Reminds me of another major study, in which American children of various races were offered a selection of dolls (also of various races), to see which were preferred.
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It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes -- Douglas Adams
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